Comments
regarding a question of former Mountain Mist finishers on how much value the
splits at the aid stations add to the enjoyment of the race. As with most
things, some think it is great and some don't give a whit.
1. I don't really care about it. With each section being so different, it
doesn't seem to tell me much when I look at it after the race. We put on
a trail ultra here in Memphis (the Swampstomper) and we don't keep splits for
the different sections. Thanks! Bill Luton
2. Jim: yes, I care about the splits and used the last few years worth to develop race strategy for this year. Thanks, Tim Vinson
3. Jim, I personally appreciate the split times. It helps me to plan my race each year by looking at my times and others. With GPS I usually have mine but I have no comparison from other people. I know it takes many volunteers but I appreciate it. James Falcon
4. Jim - absolutely, I track the time splits to see how I have progressed each year on MM (have completed 4 Mtn Mist races). I hope these can be continued.
thanks, Dave Holmes
5. It is interesting info, but not vital for an amateur like me. I know that data has to take a lot of work to compile. I think it would be more important for hard core racers who are on multiple anniversaries of the race. Those racers who perhaps want to track their detailed split to split performance over the years. For me personally though, it isn't crucial.
Thank you for all the hard work that goes in to putting on the hardest race I have on my calendar. See you all next weekend! Brian Winkler
6. Jim, For me personally, it's more for entertainment value than anything. Sure, splits are nice to have, but it's a LOT of work for not much return. Thanks for your continuing hard work with the Mist.Sarah Tynes, Race Director Pine Mountain 40 Mile Run
7. Hi Jim, I do look at the splits. Aimee Henderson
8. (Note: I
got a good laugh out of the next one.)
Jim, I guess everyone is different…
For me I don’t care about the splits, hell I don’t even wear a watch. Some of my
friends stop their watches at traffic lights and jog on the spot
J
Richard Kenmuir
9. Well, it's kind of nice for comparison to other MM races in the future, but I wouldn't die without it. Thanks for asking. Ted Hannah
10. Jim, I've always looked at my splits to see how I ran the different sections. However, I don't feel strongly about it. Granted, I'm not one of the guys setting a land speed record either. Kevin Gray
11. It is not critical for me, but it’s nice to review. Cyrus Ghavam
12. Jim, I have ran the race twice. I never really put much thought into my splits because the event was so grueling. Both times I approached the event I was undertrained but this year is another story. I will probably be a lot more conscious of my time. Daniel P. Higgins
13. Jim -- I do look over the split data from my past, find it very useful, but will certainly not freak out if it is no longer available. Bottom line: all that split-recording is the work of volunteers, and volunteers have the right to say "No thanks, not anymore" any time they choose! So if it's there, great; if not, I personally won't lose any sleep. Just the vote of one guy..... Josh Kennedy
14. Hello Jim, Yes, I absolutely do look at my splits after the race and it's surprising to me that any runner would say they are not interested in the timing splits. I've run the race a few times and it's always interesting not only to compare the finish time from year to year but to also be able to see where I lost time or made up time on the course. Thank you for all your effort. Bruce Tanksley
15. Jim, After re-reading your email, now I understand what you are asking for. Its my opinion, there is definitely too much effort being wasted on the timing at each aid station. I think as long as each runner is checked off and logged, it should be sufficient. Maybe the top 40 runners need their time because they are the ones probably competing with other runners.
I hope this helps. Daniel Higgins
16. I don't care about the splits. Daryl Hallmark
17. I definitely care about them, but I keep my own splits with the GPS watch so don't need the HTC splits. I also record about 25 splits for different sections of the course (not just the aid stations). After running the different sections in practice and in previous Mountain Mists and memorizing the target values, I can tell if I am "on schedule" and can usually predict my finish time fairly accurately after about 10 miles. That was my main problem the first year; I didn't realize that I was "behind schedule" until it was too late to make it up. Now I know exactly how fast I have to be on each section if I'm going to make the cuts.
It is
interesting to go back and see how my times for the different aid station
sections compare with other runners with similar times so I can see where our
respective strong points & weak points are. But I'm not running against anyone
(just the clock), so I really don't need my (or anyone else's) splits if it
makes the race timing easier. Graham Gallemore
18. Jim, I
would not worry about getting splits at the aid stations. If someone wants to
know their splits, he or she can keep up with it on their own--it would just
require someone to hit a button on his or her watch. That is my personal
opinion. Kathy Youngren
19. I like having the splits and do look at them with great interest. See you in a week. Robert Pless
20. Jim, I definitely look at the splits in great detail and use them to determine strategy for future races. Having said that, I will certainly understand if you decide it is too much burden to record them. Thanks, Keith Roberts
21. I really appreciate the timing especially watching it from year to year, and not just for myself but for the leaders. Richard Trice
22. I don't think I ever looked at split times last year. I do want to know what they are in 100 milers but I know how I do in a 50K. David Tosch
23. To be
honest I don't really look at them because the course changes so
much that consistency is pretty much out of the window in my book...Justin
Hulsman
24. Finish time is all I check. John Jeffery
25. Doesn't matter to me. Palmer Henson
26. I’m interested. Marty Coleman
27. I personally like to see the numbers. I probably am a little more competitive than most so it helps me see where I am weak or if I am am toying with nutrition then I can see if there was a result. But I think that it is more of a choice for you, since you are having to do the work to put it together. Yall do a great job!! Thanks. Daniel Carter
28. Jim, I don't really care about the splits after the race
That is just my opinion though. Cheers! Eric Doehrman, Coach - USA
29.
It's a nice bonus, but not a necessity. It's nice to look back and see where you
fell apart. Maybe do just one at Fearn or Fearn and Monte Sano Blvd. Steve
Carter
30. Hey Jim, I tend to agree. I know I don’t care and it seems like a lot of information gathering and posting. You might have a few complaints this year but by next year no one will expect it. Rick Caffy
31. My own feeling is that it is a lot of wasted effort to do it for the whole
field. Perhaps for the first x number of runners to spot the possible cheater
amongst those in contention for awards might be worth the effort. Even then if
you know the sections where it would be possible to cut the course splits only
in those sections would suffice. Richard Schick
32. Jim, This is important to me for comparison year by year, though not
something that is typically offered by other ultras. Eric Charette
33. Jim, I don't care about the splits. I didn't even know they were recorded.
I find myself wondering... just why am I running this again? 3 time finisher.
Jeff Fagerman
34. I like to see my splits, but I am an engineer. So of course I like numbers.
Thanks Jim. Joey Butler
35. Jim, I must admit I definitely analyze the different splits for myself as
well as other runners. I actually have a document where I track my splits from
year to year. But that's just me. Needless to say, I am very appreciative of the
effort everyone puts in for this, however I understand it is up to the race
director to decide how he wants to run his(or her) race. Eric Fritz
36. I keep my own but thanks for asking. You guys do a great job. Scott Anderson
37. No, I don't pay much attention to them. Thanks. Jamie Slafkosky
38. The split times are not necessary for me, just knowing I finished. Belinda Young
39. I really enjoy looking at the splits to analyze how I performed in each
section compared to previous years and other runners who finished around the
same time that I did. I can't say that I need the information, but I really do
like having it. I have the data on the last five years already. I would just
like to see it continue if it's not too much trouble. Thanks! Mike Trice (This
will be my 5th year running the MM)
40. I haven’t completed Mountain Mist yet, but I have done tons of other races
and my vote is for yes on the splits. I love seeing my splits at different
points of any race and comparing to other people. Helps to see if I or someone
else went out to fast or possibly not fast enough. It also helps when you do
the same race again you can compare from race to race with splits instead of
just an overall time. Jason Overbaugh
41. I do not care about splits for a 50k event. I am most concerned with my finish time and how I compared in my age group. Kim Benton
42. Coach Oaks: Although I very much appreciate the splits and really enjoy reading them, I also know how much work is involved and you wouldn't upset me if you decide to give it up. In other words, either way I'm happy. Chad Ayres
43. I don't care about splits. Troy Gizzi
44. Jim, Although I wouldn't consider it necessary, I do look at the splits for each aid station and even have them saved in a spreadsheet for each year that Katie and I have run Mountain Mist. I find it interesting to compare from year to year. But it isn't necessary. Rick Maehlmann
44. Hey coach oaks, i for one love seeing all the splits. even if i am just pacing someone i like to know what our splits were. sorry if this creates more work for y'all! but i do like having the information thx janice anderson
45.
Former finisher. No need for splits. Mark Stutzman
46. I run based on my heart rate and/or how I feel. I would look at posted splits if they were provided out of curiosity, but I certainly wouldn't bitch if they were excluded. I'm not sure they are as valuable on a trail race as they would be on say a flat or relatively flat road race. The difficulty from one section to another can vary quite a bit with trail racing so it's my opinion that you could really be comparing apples to oranges. Mark Mason (Note: Mark is a first timer for this race.)
47. Hi Jim, I have to admit that the first year I ran Mountain Mist I studied peoples previous splits to see what my own estimates splits should be. I also like to go look at splits afterwards to see who was strong at the end and who "crashed". Now, I would certainly survive without the splits. Also, rather than eliminating all splits, you could reduce it to just one. Nils Pedersen
48.
I also enjoy
looking at the splits after the race. I usually keep them on my watch as well,
but it's very interesting after the race to see how close ahead or behind my
friends were during each stage of the race.
Having the split timed also helped me because the mountain mist was my
first race longer than a 10k. I think the splits helped me to think about
breaking the race down into smaller goals rather than one big 31 mile goal
during training for my second year. Of course, this helped me a lot more than
others because I'm a local and I train on the actual course where the splits
were recorded. I could see how they wouldn't be as helpful to people from out of
town.
Finally, my favorite reason for looking at the splits is to marvel at how
quickly the front runners finish waterline! I'm disgusted each year that I
never get to waterline in time to catch the tow rope that they must be using.
:-)
Thank you very much for your part in coordinating the race. It's my
favorite race and I look forward to it each year. This year will be my 4th.
James Duncan
49. Hi Jim, I don’t think the splits are that important to me but I can see where some people would be fairly interested in them. They were probably more important to me the first couple of times I ran it, but this should be my 5th year. Thanks for putting on a great race. Mike Brannon
50.
Jim, Short answer: I care about them but its not imperative.
Longer answer: I appreciate that you've taken this question to the group.
I have certainly overlaid my past splits to see how well I've paced myself
compared to previous years. More experienced ultra runners and the "purists"
probably don't care about intermediate timing. However, the data geeks and
triathletes love that stuff. With that said, I have no delusions of eliminating
Mountain Mist from my race schedule if you don't have intermediate timing.
Look forward to tackling the course next week! Thanks for your hard work!!
James Rudd
51. Hi Jim, I never
really look at the splits. Jeff Durham
52.
Jim, I am a ten time finisher and have never been concerned or cared about my
splits at MM. It seems like a lot of work for something that may not be of
interest to most runners. It would not bother me if you were to end this
function. I am looking forward to the event next week! Michael Montgomery
53. I for one really appreciate being able to go back and look at splits. Doug
Cassidy
54. Hello Jim- I have run and finished the last 4 years. The only reason I
care about the splits , is in reference to cut-off times in other words whether
or not to speed up to make the cut-off. Billy Bilbrey
55. Jim, Although not a former Mtn Mist
finisher, I have enjoyed seeing the past splits for each section. I have
actually spent quite a bit of time studying the splits (mostly just Dave
Mackey's course record splits) to get an idea of what I can expect pace-wise out
there. I also like looking at them to see who ran a smart race and who went out
too fast and died at the end. I would not be surprised if I am in the minority
here, but if you're asking for a vote, I'd like the splits to be taken again
this year. If no one else cares, I can always take my own splits at the aid
stations, but I think it's nice to see everyone's splits all in one place on the
results page. Thanks, David Riddle
56. Hi
Jim, I have ran since 2005 and I always enjoy going back to compare my times
from sections of the course from past years races. I also lie to compare my
splits against other people in the race I know or the front runners.. It is nice
to see those splits after the race, but I understand not having them if it is a
big hassle.. C ya next week ...Michael Green
57. The splits are awesome! I understand it is probably time consuming to
collect all the data. I would also understand if you stopped collecting the
data for time and effort reduction. But I appreciate the effort, and
love it. The splits are one of the many great things about this race.
Brandon Sullivan
58. Thanks Jim
for all that you do. HTC is fortunate to have you. Yes, I care about the split
times. Each year I use the split data from other runners to create a new race
plan. This was probably most important when I was a new to ultra and trail
running. But I still use the data to calculate a goal time and expected split
times. Wayne Heckler
59. Hey Jim,
We keep our splits on our watches so I don't really see the need to record the
splits at the aid stations. I would think most people would be able to keep
their own splits. Will you still have every runner check in at each aid station
though so you know they ran the whole course?
See you next week. Shelley Sanders
DAY TWO AND BEYOND
60. Morning Coach, I could live w/o the split info. Regards - Randy McFarland
61.
Personally, I like seeing that history because each segment is so different
they’re like mini races…but yes I could live without it. I would also like to
make this suggestion….I do a lot of TRI’s and they use timing chips and mats do
get all the seperate event times and transition times…I’m sure that time of year
you could rent that equipment from a local TRI director in that area….thus
automating the entire process. Jay Manwiller
(Editor NOTE: Probably not practical for stations in the woods. And it would be
very expensive)
62.
Jim: I’ve done the race 7 times and cannot recall ever looking at the splits.
The only thing I look at is the finish time and how much closer to the jacket
that I am. I don’t want to go up Waterline any more times than necessary to earn
that baby. :) You guys are to be commended for how well you stage the race every
year! Jeff Bryan
63. My
take: If is that important to the racer they will rely on their own data anyway.
Enid Gonzalez
64. Jim, I don't think it is necessary. Jon Elmore
65. I do check out the splits. Floyd Coleman
66. Jim, I'm going for my 6th finish, and I don't know what timing process
you’re talking about at the aid stations. I do look at the splits and compare
my effort from year to year after the race, but would not be disappointed if you
decide not to do it. Thank you for all you guys do and for putting on a great
race. It's my favorite, and will continue to run it every year if my body lets
me. See you guys soon. David Glass
67. Not at all necessary, but a very nice bonus. At Mt Cheaha last year, I was
like in 15th place, but in the splits.... I was the FASTEST one on the last 3
miles up blue Hell, nobody beat me! And that was really effin cool to know. SO
splits are good, it helps one see how things went in comparison to others. If
you do splits, then you may as well do split places, like triathlons do. But
like I said, not necessary, everyone will love Mt Mist just as much regardless.
MK Rawrrrrr! Mitchell Kohlmann
68. I do enjoy looking at it, however, I think 1 or 2 splits would be enough to get a feel for the race progression and would cut down on the work load. David O'Keefe
69. I do not care about the splits, just my finishing time, which will hopefully be a little faster this year ; ) John Gregg
70. Jim, I don't think it's necessary to record splits at each aid station. Instead, maybe at every other one (ie, aid stations 1, 3, and 5). The race wouldn't suffer at all. I always set my watch and record my own splits and time, as do most folks. Thanks for your hard work! Mark Speer
71. Jim, This is a feature of the race that I feel should never be eliminated.
In fact, any quality ultra should and does provide this service. Runners
compare themselves against front runners, against competitors that pass them or
that they pass, and I always look at the time that it takes the last person to
complete a particular section. Classic examples - Western States 100 - the
climb of Devil's Thumb or the last 7 miles from hwy 93, Leadville 100 - the
climb over Hope Pass both directions, or Mountain Mist - waterline and the last
10kl (rest shelter) Without that one aspect, I believe an event could end up
being diminished in perceived status in the ultra community.
As for myself, and I would think for any and all other
runners that venture into the ultra arena that the main competition is against
the course and the clock and then the other competitors. Thus, knowing your
splits from year to year and how they compare to the other competitors
throughout the race is extremity valuable and fun. Mike Allen (Editor note: he
is a 15 time finisher of this race.)
72. Jim, (DeWayne) Satterfield, (Tim) Vinson and I marked the Landtrust side of
the course this morning (Saturday). We talked about your question a little bit
and both of those guys also enjoyed seeing splits for the same reasons that I
do. I would have never thought about the safety reason because I always am
looking at the splits well after the race is over. Now that you mention it
though, I do see the value in tracking splits to keep track of lost people. As
well as we try to mark the course, there are always going to be places where
people get lost. If people can get lost in the marathon like I heard happened
to several folks this year, then people could get lost in the Mist. David
Riddle’s (second opinion)
73. This reply is for Rob Apple and Susan Donnelly - we never look at the splits
and for us it's not necessary. Thanks for all the work that goes in to this
race, Susan Donnelly
74. Jim, I do look at them but I don't think they are necessary. If it were scaled back to just a split at Fearn Dr., that would be fine with me. If they were dropped completely, that’s fine too. Having intermediate splits in a trail ultra is a luxury. Eric Schotz
75.
Jim, This
will be my 7th Mist and I have never taken an aid station
split. Gary Griffin
76.
Split
times are kind of interesting to check out later but I could live without them.
I would like to see the total time elapsed displayed or available to see at each
aid station. Marcus Farris
77. I do like to check out my vs others progress and to compare my changes over
the years.
However, it would not reduce my enjoyment of Mountain Mist if you removed the
stage times. Andrew Hackett
78. I don't really care. And I feel like if someone REALLY cared about their
splits and such, they'd probably be doing it on their own anyway to ensure they
had their own records. Just my thoughts, though. Joseph Maxwell
79. No I don't. Joe Wallace
80. I
don't know if I would call it necessary but I really appreciate it. I always
look at it and compare my splits to previous years and also with other members
of my running club. So thanks for the extra work. David Milner
81. I
rarely pay attention to them. Jason Barringer
82.
Jim, I do
keep track of it. I have charted myself on each split over the past 6 MMs. I
like to tease friends about their splits as well. I glad the race provides them
and would like them to continue. It’s one less thing I have to do. I have
tried to do it many times on my watch and always miss one or two because I just
want to get grub and drink at the rest areas.
I understand how difficult it is for you to have to provide the man/women
power to collect and collate the results. I suppose I would dislike losing the
information, but I would understand from a race director’s position.
P.S. Thank you for donating time to support this race. It is my favorite race
and I have made a 10 year commitment to this race. When I finally stop running
it, I will work it. Michael Gravel
83. The splits don't matter to me. All I care about is finishing. Barry Ege
84. Jim, My
two cents worth is that if people are overly concerned with their split times
they will get them on their own. However I will say it is nice to look at them
if it is a burden on the race workers I wouldn't bother with it. I'm only a 1
time finisher though so. Thanks for your hard work,
Sean Allan
85. Hi Jim, I have run a few of the Mountain Mist events and I guess that I listen to a few of the split times but only as an indicator if I am behind and might be pulled. I don't carry a time piece so I kind of rely on what I'm told, but I always know approximately how long I have been out on an event. Do I need split times? No! I can get along without them. Hope this helps with your question. Craig Kelly
86. Jim, Personally, I do look at my splits during the race, although they do not mean much to me aside from the fact of reminding me how I felt at that point during the race.
I think they could possibly benefit from those who train on Monte Sano, to see how they performed on that section of the course versus when they were training, but aside from that I don't see much of a use for them. It is pretty exciting to see if I did better on powerline versus other parts of the course though! I wouldn't be sad to see them go this year. Thanks, Clinton Winkles
87. As a 5 time finisher at mtn mist, I always enjoy looking back at the splits of various runners to see where I made up time or lost time to them. I know it's not a necessity, but it's a really nice feature of your race that a lot of races do not go to the trouble to provide. The Mountain Mist 50k was my first ultra and is still my favorite.(Even though I broke my fibula in the 2005 race, which was my only dnf there) My running buddies who have raced it with me also enjoy looking up the splits afterward. But, like I said, it's not necessary, but it's a helpful perk that helps set your race apart from some other races. Thanks for listening! Gary Dover
88. I like to see the splits. Looking forward to another fun run. Marc Thompson
89.
Hey Jim, I
have run the Mist about 5 or 6 times. Unless I’m just out trying to get a
training run in, I always try to improve on the last effort. Part of my planning
and strategizing is looking at splits and trying to find where I can make up
some time. Sometimes I just look at my own splits, but often I compare them to
other runners. I find that it is incredibly beneficial, if not entertaining for
a geek like myself to check out the splits. I realize it is a monumental effort
and ultimately runners could just hit a split button or something when they come
thru, but that wouldn’t allow for sharing of information. I also find myself
completely focused when I come through the aid stations on getting my nutrition
and getting out as quickly as humanly possible. Often, I forget to catch my
splits. One of the things I’ve always appreciated about Mist is the effort put
towards those details. That being said, I am unfortunately going to miss the
Mist this year. I will be climbing Ice in Montana and Wyoming this week. Have a
great Race and thanks for your concern.
Wendi (Parker-Dial, last year’s woman winner) will be out as well. Mist has
always been a race we both look forward too, and one that I would still love to
win someday. Last year was a big one for us as we raced and trained really hard
for about 9-10 months. Ultras and trail running are things we have always been
passionate about and something we will continue to do, but it got a little out
of hand. I think as competitive athletes, you are always looking for the next
event, the next win, and it can be quite consuming. We both have other passions
and are enjoying spending some time with those, mainly our family. Wendi has
been riding horses a bunch lately and I’m back climbing again (not just a job
anymore…) Beyond just having mad fitness, one of the things we really miss is
the ultra family and seeing our friends and other runners at the events. Ultra
running is still small enough that it feels like a family. We miss them. Please
pass along our sadness for missing out this year and thanks for putting on such
a great event. Jamie Dial
90. Jim, I
see that my response is a little on the late side but I like the final decision
to keep the splits. I ‘m sure it is a lot of work to keep up with the details
but it is a very nice bonus to most runners. Thanks for such a great job!
An added note: My brother Jeff’s response is rather interesting:
“33.
Jim, I don't care about the splits. I didn't even know they were recorded. I
find myself wondering... just why am I running this again? 3 time finisher. Jeff
Fagerman”
Not
only does he (Jeff) have a record, in his head, of his splits for each aide
station for each MM run he has completed but he has a story to go with each leg
of the run as well. Oh, and he is usually asking everyone else what their times
were at certain points for comparison purposes.
My guess is that prior to answering your question he over-stressed on one of
our training runs (or fell and hit his head) and did not understand the
question.
J
Thanks
again! Patrick Fagerman
91. Jim, Just picked up your email this morning. I ran my first MM last year. I
found the split times of interest, comparing my time with other runners that I
remembered running with during the race. Usually, the times showed that as I
tired during the run, those I had run with early in the race widened their lead
on me. I run a lot with Graham Gallemore, and he knows his target times for
every segment, whereas I just listen to my body and run the best I can at the
moment. Lee Hollingsworth
92.
Jim, Personally, it's not a big deal to me. If it's easier to not worry about
the splits, my feeling won't be hurt to not get them. Thanks. John Nevels
93. I use it - if for nothing else but to see how much I slow down or how I did
in certain sections. And to try and plan for next year to see if I'm pushing
too hard in one section just to end up slowing down in another. It's hard to
know your pace on the trail, not like a road race. Yes I appreciate
the splits. Thanks. Brent Montgomery
94.
Yes I look
at them and it is a great tool for use. Steve Hogan
95. Not
needed. Save you're effort. Thanks! Phil Canning
96. I
like the splits and seeing how I was positioned throughout the race in relation
to the field. I understand, however, that this does require additional work on
the race organizer’s part and would still participate in the race if they were
not provided. Kevin Boucher
97. Jim, I guess I missed or neglected to fill
out the survey, but I am another that loves the splits. Having run the race
every year for a while now, it is great fun for me to spend hours going over my
splits and those of other runners. Now, I don't use them during the race,
basically I just judge by what place I'm in, but I wish every race would keep
detailed splits like MM. It is a lot of fun to compare different sections
between runners. Carl Laniak
98.
It’s nice to
know but with trail racing, I'm only worried with my overall finish time.
Kimberly Fuller
99. My
thoughts are probably a combination of all those previously received... I LOVE
having the splits, but would gladly give them up if it relieves pressure on the
workers. I would hope that if splits are discontinued, runners' arrival at aid
stations would still be noted. This would be to prevent cheating by bypassing
checkpoints. I go over the splits (mine and my competition's) in great detail,
to see where I lost it. If the official splits were discontinued, I would still
use my own, which I save year after year. Jim Upton
100. I don't care about the splits. Charley Meyers